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Forums > Combo Videos Discussion > In regards to the Guile and Balrog combos that Lezard did.
 
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DarkValentine

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 11-15-2006 12:37 GMT - #31329    IP:

 
It seems apparent that someone who is just using facts to explain himself, rather than digging deeper than what facts state is obviously wasting my time, and everyone elses, after it was said in the thread about this, stating that no one really cared. I'm gonna waste my time and will have to break down this for the whiner who doesn't believe anything past what anyone else says. Yet he has no proof that it's for real or not.


So Majestros, you want a new thread explaining and breaking down what actually happened? here it is. Because after this post is made, unless you can back yourself up in proving me wrong in which I have yet to see, then you should'nt be in any position to talk smack from here on out.


In regards to what Lezard did when playing as Guile, going against Balrog, If this was so much of a cheat, then don't you think that it would have been preformed successfully from the start of the video, up until the point where it was shown in the video? As far as i can see, no emulation was used in this, for the simple fact that this was preformed on the Street Fighter Collection 2, so this means that everything, including glitches, errors, and everything else from the original Arcade Board, and/or cartridge, is carried over to the disc itself. and even on the disc, it will act the same as if it did on the originals, plus the fact of the loading screen, and having to load some of the data directly into the system.


Now that I have that out of the way, it's time to shut you up, like the whiner you are since you can't seem to take a hint, and you can only think of it being the obvious cheating.


let's start off with the combo Lezard did on Balrog, shall we?


c.MP xx Sonic Boom, walk forward, Flash Kick will be used as this is what was shown in the video as to what happened. And i'll explain it myself. Being a fellow SF player, you will normally see things that normally does not happen all the time. Due to the fact that there is no such thing as a perfectly made game, as it will have to stem with some errors. An example of this is on the SF2 Arcade itself. no emulation, just the original Arcade board.


In certain, and Very rare instances, there have been talks about glitches that would happen during the game itself. this was normally something that no one took notice, unless it caught one's eye. Much in the fashion of what was done in the Guile vs Balrog fight. There have been a number of errors and glitches that happen within a 1/32 ratio, but can be exposed if too many commands happen in one continual succession. Or, it would go the way of the pinball machine, and practically ,"tilt".


For this to be preformed, it can be preformed with anyone, given the fact that you use continual movement with that particular character, and the combo string associated with it. As i've noted in what I told Dark_Chaotix in the quote below,

Quote
on an actual system however, you are only limited to that particular system's processor and what it can handle. try to exceed it, and you get those results. understand the hardware.



Now while this remains true no matter what you play, there are some faults in terms of actual programming. so if you say Majestros that you things based on facts, i'll spit out further facts, and break it down for you.


For Guile, c.MP xx Sonic Boom, walk forward, Flash Kick can be preformed, and not have any loss in frames just as equally with a loss in frames due to a programmers bug that was never really removed from the original cartridge, or Arcade Board itself. Now while it is possible that this was used in mainly the actual Rainbow edition arcade that came out just months after SF2CE hit the arcades, it was not meant to happen in the original SF2. Though as players discovered this bug in the programming, it has been used successfully. With the exception of actually doing the combo string, into the said bug.

So in terms of actually cheating, the Programming bug that existed in the original SF2 was never taken out, and thus left in the game itself. Even after countless times being put into contemplations such as the Street Fighter Collection 2. Due to the fact that at the time of it's release, no one was really concerned about bugs or anything happening for something that looks completely new, fresh and tight to the Arcade & SNES scene soon after.


So, breaking down this actual way of doing it doesn't require extra macros, or the like, as teh original bugs that was there when it was released, is still there now in the manu contemplations out there. and no version of it was bug free. As there is a reason why the Rainbow Edition of SF2CE was never put into any contemplations, due for the fact that as everyone knows Capcom to keep things on the legit side when it came to doing originals. and the Rainbow Edition was not original.

Everything done in that version is from what i've told Dark_Chaotix, everything goes by a set, or sets of numbers. though it can either be just numbers ranging from 0 to 9, or it can be hexidecimal. In terms of this, it is hexidecimal numbers. Nothing is made to run smoothly, and as you can see, graphical glitches have nothing to do with it, because actual cheating can't alter the path that it is supposed to stay on.


Another example of this is the Time Over bug that happens in certain Vs. mode matches, this was one bug that was never fully removed from the game itself, because it has a very rare chance of happening. But something that is rare, does'nt meant that it won't happen. Even ratio guesses or actual findings/observations can determine when things like what happened in the Guile vs Balrog fight can happen or not.

A Similar incident happened with Fei Long on Super Street Fighter 2. some of his moves in general can do exactly like what Guile did in the same fashion on the video. and example of this is the combo string for Fei Long "Standing HK, qfc HPx2, qfc MP, to the Rising Flame Kick. in the frame just before it, there is supposed to be a 7 frame difference in the time it takes to pull this off. But, in actual terms of the string itself, it is giving the same advantage that Guile had against Balrog. to simply state, That combo string to end like that, without actual charge time, is not supposed to happen, but it does actually happen on the Actual Arcade Board due to programming bugs that were never fully removed from it. the same applies for the contemplations that was created.


Also, I will state that this is something that can be discovered, but it's not likely that it can be often used all the time. Reason saying is that not everyone is supposed to remember every single combo string, and try it on every character. that is what 2P is for, not going against the CPU in general.


so for the record, i'll qoute you on this below from the previous thread.

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Dmac: Haha, dude, 1/512 is ONLY in SF2:WW. That's a different game from SSF2T. Let me say that again. 1/512 IS NOT IN ST. Lezard used ST in his video. LEZARD USED ST IN HIS VIDEO.


If this is the case that you said he used "SSF2T" in the video, then where in the hell is Vega, Balrog, Sagat & Bison in thier respective places on the character select screen, instead of them appearing after defeating the normal characters. hmm?


Sorry dude, while you may have some facts straight, I've yet to see you fully break them down past the 1/512 ratio that you claim exists. programming bugs are not ratios, and can easily be discovered by accident by any player who holds true to the actual gameplay itself.

So to end my moment in wasitng my time with you, I will say that try to come back with something better than this, and with alot more proof on your end, and you try to break down facts, instead of stack facts that you state on top of itself, and then you can drop it. Until then, it's put up or shut up.


So there you have it, you wanted an explanation, i gave you alot more than a simple explanation. If you're gonna put the beef to someone with facts that you say is true, stack that beef with some gravy, and get more from the fact that you already know, before false assumptions.

 

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 11-15-2006 13:11 GMT - #31330    IP:

 
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If this is the case that you said he used "SSF2T" in the video, then where in the hell is Vega, Balrog, Sagat & Bison in thier respective places on the character select screen, instead of them appearing after defeating the normal characters. hmm?

That video wasn't the one Majestros had issue with, that Youtube video is just someone playing World Warrior on PSX SFC2 and getting the (previously confirmed by the Japanese) 1/512 Special glitch.

I believe the video that has Lezard doing the impossible on ST would be this one: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=797

 

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 11-15-2006 13:39 GMT - #31331    IP:

 
alright, I watched it, and seen the minor slip up in actual videos on my part, on what was used. But my facts still hold to be valid on seeing what programming bugs that can actually stem from the original versions. nothing's perfect.


still does'nt mean to say that glitching is the same as hacking that Majestros is putting it. though i may have talked about the wrong video in the quote about the 1/512 glitch, the rest of my facts still hold true that it is possible, and no hacking or cheating is nessesary. it can either be discovered by accident, in terms of string combos done successively, or it can be done by knowing how to do it for every fight encounter that you do, besides the usual.


still in all, i'm not defending anyone, or sticking up for anything. thought i would at least put my say on what is what, while i have still yet to see Majestros say it without sounding like ranting. even if my info on what vids were used was wrong, it still holds the point as valid as it can get by what was actually confirmed, and can be done.

Also, upon further review of the vid, you can look at the movement that Guile does right before the flash kick. As you see, a possible quick charge time can be preformed as you are sliding back from the sonic boom, but immediately after that, you can do a Flash Kick. but again, the only main reason for it happening was due to programming bugs of actual cancelation that is'nt supposed to happen like that. So in terms, it is an actual bug in the game itself that allows this. it just takes in part of knowing that bugs do exist.

This post was edited by DarkValentine (11-15-2006 13:52 GMT, --- ago)
 

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 11-15-2006 15:11 GMT - #31336    IP:

 
"World Warrior on PSX SFC2"Street Fighter 2 World warrior and what's SFC2?

 

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 11-15-2006 15:18 GMT - #31340    IP:

 
SFC2 is Street fighter Collection 2. in case you were wondering. still in all, it held the originals ported to the PSX, and in turn, the programming bugs still remained even in the PSX version.

all that i said above, even though i was pointing out the wrong game, and what i said in the above post in my correction of that still states the fact that bugs do exist, and they still come out, regardless of the 1/512 special glitch., or what was done in ST. which really should'nt be any issue, and really should be dropped.


Since Majestros wanted a full explanation broken down, i gave him one. and and it did'nt have to be in direct for just that particular one, because the bug varies from version to version, but all revolving around the same game, same board it was based on.

So hopefully i don't have to further explain myself any more than this, because i get tired of actually having to prove myself for lost causes such as this to someone who can't accept it as is.

 

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 11-15-2006 15:18 GMT - #31341    IP:

 
I'm guessing Street Fighter Champion 2nd Edition if there is such a thing.

 

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 11-15-2006 16:59 GMT - #31344    IP:

 
Wow, DarkValentine. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You made a 21-paragraph post saying nothing more than "glitches exist in games." We know that buddy. And guess what? After 15 years of playing with SF2, SF2CE, SF2HF, SSF2, SSF2T, and collecting/sharing information across a network of tens of thousands of players, we have a pretty fucking good idea of how the games work. We sure as hell don't need you coming in here telling us that programming bugs exist in games. WE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE!

What Lezard did in those Guile/Balrog combos is IMPOSSIBLE according to our current understanding of the game (based on 15 years of research).

Internally, these games run at 60fps. At turbo speeds, that's accellerated by a fixed factor but the game still runs at 60fps internally. Charge time for most characters is around 60 frames, but the more precise numbers can be found here: http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html

If you look at the numbers on there and read the paragraph under it, you'll see that the charge time for Guile's moves is 54 frames minimum (and 50% of the time it's 55 frames). If you look at the frame data for Guile's Sonic Boom, you'll see that it lasts 30 frames total in ST: http://nki.combovideos.com/flame.html

Let me explain the way attacks work in almost all Street Fighter games. If your attack connects, both characters get stuck in "impact freeze" for 15 frames. So during this period, if you're already charged, you can complete the Sonic Boom command as soon as the attack connects and start recharging for the next special move. The Sonic Boom will come out 13 frames later due to the remaining impact freeze, so that's like extra charge time you can use for the next special move.

So if you look the Guile combo at 9:37 in Lezard's Final Chapter video, Guile does c.MP xx Sonic Boom, walk forward, Flash Kick. GUILE DOES NOT CROUCH INBETWEEN THE SONIC BOOM AND WALKING FORWARD. So that means the MAXIMUM total charge time in that segment was 15 frames from the c.MP impact freeze and 30 frames from the Sonic Boom. That adds up to 45 frames. He's 10 frames short of having charge for the Flash Kick. That combo is impossible. I'm being very lenient here by assuming absolutely perfect precision and not even counting all of the frames that get sacrificed to completing commands. If you want to keep talking about this combo, i can even prove to you that there's no way he could have been charging during those 15 impact freeze frames because of the way he set it up.

Believe me guys, that's not the only thing wrong with this video. There are at least four places where it's obvious he used a charge cheat to do his ST combos. I can provide proof if this argument keeps going. Anway, in order for Lezard to be doing those things, he either had to have been cheating or he had to have found a revolutionary new glitch. But when you ask that kid how he performed those combos, the answers he gives indicate that he's got no idea what he's talking about either.

For example, we ask him how he did the Sonic Boom into Double Somersault Kick super, and he says he fused the commands for the two supers. BUT THAT DOESN'T WORK. It's not a clever or revolutionary idea. Dozens of people have tried for many many hours using programmable controllers over a decade! Or we ask him how to do that Sonic Boom into walk forward Flash Kick without any ducking after the Sonic Boom, and he says you just have to be really precise. Of course, as i proved above, that's complete bullshit because even if you had absolutely frame-by-frame precision it would still not be enough.

Essentially Lezard is saying: I did something impossible without finding a new way of breaking the rules. I'm just better than all of you. Once you become as good as i am, you don't have to pay attention to the rules of the game.

I was gonna quote DarkValentine's post and take it apart piece by piece. But really, there's nothing there to take apart and i'd rather just save you guys the extra reading time.

 

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 11-15-2006 17:05 GMT - #31345    IP:

 
my point stands valid. and if everyone did'nt want me here, i would have been banned immediately after making this thread.


speak for yourself if you don't want me here, not others.



i'm done with this post, as i gave you want you want. Regardless of the fact that you believe i don't know what i'm talking about, I wash my hands of the matter, if you have the bowling balls, then you do the same. And once you do the same, i'll ask a mod to lock this thread so this discussion can remain dead, since there is no point in bickering in a place that does'nt need it.

 

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 11-15-2006 17:10 GMT - #31346    IP:

 
No, actually, you don't get banned just because people don't want you here. You only get banned if you break forum rules. So unfortunately, you can spread as much lies and misinformation about games as you want without getting banned.

And for the record, i wanted an explanation of how Lezard did those combos, not a vague shallow empty imprecise rambling uninformed essay on how glitches sometimes exist in games.

Furthermore, i absolutely do not agree with locking this thread. Just because you have no facts to back up your self-proclaimed "deep" understanding of the game doesn't mean there aren't people out there who want to discuss this. If you've got nothing more to add, you can find the exit on your own, Neo.

 

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 11-15-2006 17:17 GMT - #31347    IP:

 
I know about getting banned from forums if I break the forum rules. I did'nt need an elementary school teaching to know that.


and honestly, you're supposed to be the guy who breaks combo videos down, as from what i read in the previous thread. so obviously, it should be known to you how he did that, without asking, or trying to ask someone for an explanation that someone like yourself should already know.



this thread can continue, or it can drop. let's make this easy as possible, and just drop it. you say i don't know, but i have yet to see your proof. and what you say above is not proof. if you say it's not possible, then show that it is not.


like i said in the post in the other thread, i was going to end up wasting my time with you, and that's exactly what i'm doing. so it's gonna take alot to break me.

This post was edited by DarkValentine (11-15-2006 17:25 GMT, --- ago)
 

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 11-15-2006 17:27 GMT - #31349    IP:

 
Ok, here's an idea. Why don't you point out what's wrong with my proof?

Personally i enjoy these discussions because it helps iron out the properties of the game engine and it helps spread the knowledge on how the games work. Hopefully some people will find this information useful. But you are neither providing any concrete information for anyone to use, nor do you seem to have any respect for this community in general. You're the only one here who thinks their time is too valuable to be spent explaining things to anyone else.

Just to show you that i'm willing to cooperate, why don't you explain to me what it would take to "show that it is not" possible? I mean, apart from the mountain of fucking proof i've already provided.

 

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 11-15-2006 18:29 GMT - #31350    IP:

 
alright, since i want to be as fair in saying things, without being too brash, let's get one thing out of the way, before i make my statement.


if i honestly thought my time was'nt valuable enough to be here, or i don't have respect for this community, then i wouldn't sign up at all. i don't sign up on forums where it does'nt look like it's worth my time, i forget they even exist. like i said, i plan on sticking around for a long while, so i'm not going anywhere.



since i said that, and got that out of the way, i'll go on ahead and explain myself in a way you can understand, seeing as you can't go one minute without not liking what most have to say in regards to this event that happened in Lezard's video. especially seeing that my logic does'nt mix with yours, but it's not about that, so i'm personally not going to go that far.


we'll start out at the exact moment that the beginning of this impossible combo happens. yes it is said that it is impossible to do this sort of thing, but the question still remains as to what was really used for this to happen. from the way the move was done, Macros was definately not in play on this video. if said macros was used to offset the actual position of the move, so that dead frames could result in this, then that would'nt be fair mostly. but then again, it's not my video, so i can't really say what is and is'nt. so i keep any assumptions to myself and just keep going.


Charge Cheats tend to not work any and all the time, due to the fact of it releasing one or two dead frames in the total ammount of what is normally given in the frames for that characters movements. and depending on that character who can charge, it varies into what is provided in the link that shows the charts. as you shown above. with guile proving to be the easiest of all the charge characters in ST to pull this off. but this is'nt an actual garauntee. at first, i was thinking Frame Advance, but that is also a hit and miss as well, because it breaks the frames associated with what you are trying to achieve for that particular move, or combo string in general. in this case, Guile.


I can see the charts on Guile's Sonic Boom adds up to what you say, but i took a closer look at the video. yes, that was a walking animation, but because it was'nt full walking, it left some dead frames in, allowing the game to think that it is a charged action, when clearly it isn't a charged action. half step frames do exist, and it seems to me that by overlooking this, it's not easily seen to be just that. it's not a complete combo because it ends with the sonic boom, and not the Flash Kick.


the timing of this does'nt have to be precise, or on the mark, but there is the stipulation that half step frames count as dead frames not captured by the game, but it will not register those frames into completing the combo shown.

What the game is expecting is just c.MP xx Sonic Boom, but no walking animation. though there were enough dead frames to pull off another bazooka knee in time to make the combo continue. but due to the dead frames left over, which would be about 1 or 2 frames left behind, it read the input wrong, and therefore, initiated the Flash Kick, but not counting it as actuality.

 

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 11-15-2006 18:53 GMT - #31352    IP:

 
Majestros is making more sense ATM. And if your info is true DarkValentine, why didn't Lezard say this ealier when people asked instead of saying you have to be very precise? If he pulled it off then he had to know how he did it.

 

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 11-15-2006 19:01 GMT - #31353    IP:

 
being precise does'nt actually mean that it is just that. it can just exactly happen, or it can happen from knowledge of the move in general noting of it, as it is shown in 9:37 into the video, or it could just be from a combination of both. some ppl tend to not really think this through as to thinking dead frames don't actually exist, when they do. but it's 50/50 as to when they happen.


like i said, there were enough of them to pull off another bazooka knee to continue the combo, and make it better, but due to the lack of those dead frames used, combned with the distance, in turn resulted in a half step frame movement similar to frame advance. but again, the combo did'nt fully connect.

 

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 11-15-2006 19:14 GMT - #31354    IP:

 
Can someone please translate what DarkValentine just said? Does anyone here even believe this kid has played Street Fighter before? Who the fuck uses phrases like "dead frames" and "half step" in this community??

Quote
DarkValentine :
Charge Cheats tend to not work any and all the time, due to the fact of it releasing one or two dead frames in the total ammount of what is normally given in the frames for that characters movements.


Um, no. If you use charge cheats, (WHICH LEZARD DID), all of the ST combos in that video are easy as hell. With charge cheats enabled, ANYONE can do those combos without understanding the game engine, without being particularly good at performing difficult combos, without having any respect for the countless hours people have put into doing legit combos for the game. Given all of this, it's not surprising that Lezard has no explanation for his ST combos, has not attempted to reproduce these combos in a non-emulated game like HSF2 (on Anniversary Edition), and continues to fabricate lies to misinform the entire community for selfish reasons.

Sonic Booms give Guile a LOT of frame advantage in these games. He has time to wait and charge some more before doing a follow-up attack. LEZARD NEVER WAITS. Every single one of these combos has Guile doing an attack right after the Sonic Boom without optimizing charge time. Like i said before, he's not even good at hiding the fact that he's cheating.

Quote
DarkValentine :
like i said, there were enough of them to pull off another bazooka knee to continue the combo, and make it better, but due to the lack of those dead frames used, combned with the distance, in turn resulted in a half step frame movement similar to frame advance. but again, the combo did'nt fully connect.


You can't combo after "bazooka knee" in that situation anyway, so how would doing the knee have made the combo better?

 

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 11-15-2006 19:19 GMT - #31356    IP:

 
been playing SF2 since it's release in 1991 in the arcades, and the same went for ST when it was released in the Arcades. not my problem if you don't believe me.

and i'm agreeing with why has'nt anything been said as to what was up. real players don't cheat in SF, and even i know that. If i can't play someone who can't go without one second without cheat, and they are'nt playing fair, i just don't play them.


Also, it could have been better, but that would have ended up with sacrificing a sonic boom to keep the combo going. but at least it would'nt result into what it looks like in the video.

 

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 11-15-2006 19:27 GMT - #31357    IP:

 
I'm seriously starting to get a headache trying to talk to you. I'm glad you've been playing SF2 and ST for a long time, but that still doesn't change the fact that you've got no idea what you're talking about, can't put together a coherent sentence to save your life, and REFUSE to provide any concrete proof whatsoever.

You're saying the knee should have been in the middle of the combo before the Sonic Boom? Please transcribe the combo you are suggesting, from beginning to end.

Is there anyone who actually believes anything DarkValentine is saying?

 

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 11-15-2006 19:34 GMT - #31358    IP:

 
insulting me is'nt chaning the subject matter of this entire discussion.


and what i'm saying is look at the starting combo, he launches a Sonic boom, then a bazooka knee, but the Sonic boom hits just one frame faster than the knee. then launches a MP. at this point, it's either another sonic boom, which would use the 13 remaining frames to go on what was there from the inital 15 starting from the first sonic boom, or initate another bazooka knee to continue the combo. then you would be able to use LP to at least complete the combo into being 5 solid hits, without doing anything else to sneak in an extra hit. And by 5 solid hits, i mean by tapping LP quickly to at least make the combo complete, instead of just normally pressing it, to cut it short.

this would still result in some frames from the total usage, but at least there would'nt be anything in there that was set like in Lezard's video.


Quote
I'm seriously starting to get a headache trying to talk to you.


I'm glad that i'm giving you a headache, because i feel just fine right now. as for this discussion, the thread does'nt have to be closed, we could just leave it, and you can go back in search wondering why has'nt he said anything about how it's done.

I can go on for a very long time, but that would only make it bad for you, and the only thing i want to do is just to leave this topic alone. only on the exception that you leave it alone as well, and we can let the others give thier say on this matter as well. there's already been one who is agreeing and wondering.


i'm willing to put it fair if you are.

This post was edited by DarkValentine (11-15-2006 19:54 GMT, --- ago)
 

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 11-15-2006 20:51 GMT - #31364    IP:

 
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DarkValentine :
look at the starting combo, he launches a Sonic boom, then a bazooka knee, but the Sonic boom hits just one frame faster than the knee.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying the bazooka knee hits before the Sonic Boom or that the Sonic Boom hits Zangief and then the bazooka knee hits Zangief?

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DarkValentine:
or initate another bazooka knee to continue the combo. then you would be able to use LP to at least complete the combo into being 5 solid hits, without doing anything else to sneak in an extra hit.


Ok, so this is what you're suggesting:

Sonic Boom, bazooka knee, MP xx Sonic Boom, bazooka knee, LP

Correct?

 

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 11-15-2006 21:15 GMT - #31365    IP:

 
this is what i'm saying after seeing the start of the vid from that point. it starts off with Sonic Boom, and as you said it yourself in the quote below.

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both characters get stuck in "impact freeze" for 15 frames.


It's that 15 frame freeze that makes the Sonic Boom hit one frame faster than the Bazooka knee at the very beginning. And as you can see, where Zangief gets up, and Guile already launched the Bazooka knee after the Sonic Boom. This is when he actually slapped both Sonic Boom & Bazooka Knee. But even so, that starts out as the first two hits. That also can be connected with MP at that point. but there is two ways to split this combo up, and this is what i've put together.


Sonic Boom, bazooka knee, MP, LP (2x). this gains for an automatic 5 hit, as i've seen this done in the arcades before. this still leaves the total frames from running out.

or

Sonic Boom, bazooka knee MP xx Sonic Boom, HP. The HP at the end will still connect in using it to complete the combo still. you can't cheat out of a HP if that is what you use to complete the combo. And quick charge does'nt work in the middle of HP either, so it cancels that. makes for a legit combo.

 

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Majestros

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 11-15-2006 21:27 GMT - #31367    IP:

 
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DarkValentine :
Quote
both characters get stuck in "impact freeze" for 15 frames.


It's that 15 frame freeze that makes the Sonic Boom hit one frame faster than the Bazooka knee at the very beginning.


No it's not. The 15-frame impact freeze happens when the c.MP connects. You have no fucking clue what i'm talking about. I don't care how long you claim to have played Street Fighter. You sound like a total scrub. It's like you're talking in a different language, man. We have standards and terminology here. If you took a minute to learn them, you wouldn't be making such a complete fool of yourself.

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DarkValentine :
Sonic Boom, bazooka knee, MP, LP (2x). this gains for an automatic 5 hit, as i've seen this done in the arcades before. this still leaves the total frames from running out.


The bazooka knee never hits Zangief in Lezard's combo. Every single one of the bazooka knees in that video completely miss Zangief. They're only used to move Guile forward while charging the next Sonic Boom. Get. A. Clue. Better yet, come back in 6 months once you've caught up to what we're talking about.

Also, nobody living on this side of 1995 thinks that "Sonic Boom, bazooka knee, MP, LP x2" is an impressive combo. This is what i mean when i say talking to you gives me a headache.

 

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 11-15-2006 21:31 GMT - #31368    IP:

 
and in nobody you mean you, right? because you're the only one talking.


if you don't want a headache, then let's both drop the subject, and let others give a go at this disussion. i don't really care for your insults, because it makes you what you are saying to me, a complete fool.


and if this is also the case, then why do you still respond to my posts. i've offered to make this easy, but you're not taking it.


so the best thing for the both of us is to not respond to this particular thread, and just leave it as is. Because from the looks of things, until Lezard himself says how it was done, you're not going to get a straight answer, and you're making yourself upset & with a headache, because of my posts.


the only one in this thread who at least has'nt understood the easy way out if it is you.

This post was edited by DarkValentine (11-15-2006 21:36 GMT, --- ago)
 

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Majestros

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 11-15-2006 21:41 GMT - #31369    IP:

 
No, i don't mean just me, because unlike you i have a pretty good idea of what's going on in the scene. Whereas you are just another chump who thinks he can win an argument without any facts.

If you want, i can get a few dozen (respected) people here to verify everything i've said, agree that you have no idea what you're talking about, and tell you that your combo ideas suck.

You're aren't going to win this argument just by making me want to shoot myself. I respond to your posts because they are wrong and i don't like people spreading misinformation. We've been over this. Just because there are a million things i'd rather be doing right now doesn't change any of this.


And for the last time, Lezard cheated to do these combos. They are not legitimate. The only thing left for him to say is that he's sorry for doing it.

 

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 11-15-2006 21:47 GMT - #31370    IP:

 
i don't think, nor i don't plan on winning any fact on anything. again, i don't honestly care what you do, you're the one who is saying the insults, not me. i'm just offering something the both of us can do, and that's to leave this post. hell, if you agree to it, i won't post in it again, if that's what you want.


so as for you telling me what to do, that's what a mod is for, but you're not one of them. at the same time, i'm not breaking any forum rules, yet you are in insult land right now. i can go on for days, and give you the biggest headache in your life, or we can leave eachother alone, and just leave this thread.


i don't really care what you know about what, just as much as you've proven to me that you don't give a damn about what my info says.


again i'll say it, let's just make it easy, and leave the thread alone, or we can keep going. because unlike you, i don't stress myself over small stuff, and since in your mind you see me as that, then i don't see why you can't do what you would do to other small stuff, and just plain ignore it.


and even if i do leave, you still won't get the answers you want, but let me guess, if you read this and i do, then it would be one less person to deal with right? wrong.

if i don't break the rules, in which i'm in no violation of any of them, then i remain here, like it or not.

 

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Lezard

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 11-15-2006 22:04 GMT - #31371    IP:

 
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Essentially Lezard is saying: I did something impossible without finding a new way of breaking the rules. I'm just better than all of you. Once you become as good as i am, you don't have to pay attention to the rules of the game.


Majestros,

Don't put in my mouth words i haven't said. You've driven this discussion to a point in which you insult everyone who doesn't agree with what you say, as i've already said, i don't care what you say or do, but your behavior here is not the proper one, you've even insulted someone who was only trying to clarify the facts by using logic and knowlegde, real knowledge (which you aren't).

I'm not against this discussion, but i don't like way you are talking here, i don't have anything against you, but you could at least speak in a decent or educated manner if you want results. This is the main reason why i hadn't posted before, because i think that a person like you doesn't deserve my time, however, now i post here because you're insulting people that only want you to understand something, and to be honest, DarkValentine has a better explanation than me.

I don't see the reason why you are so stressed over something as small as this. This tells me that don't have anything better to do , and you live in your own world. Now i wonder, is this the kind of behavior of a veteran of Street Fighter?, from what i've read, you are never wrong and what you say is absolute, now you have 2 options, keep up dreaming and living in your fairy tails, immersed into your own ideas, or wake up and see the facts, the fact that in your 15 years playing this game, there's someone who did what you couldn't or what you believed impossible.

 

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Majestros

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 11-15-2006 22:22 GMT - #31374    IP:

 
DarkValentine: The headache thing was a joke dude. Your last couple of posts have been nothing more than "i'm never gonna give up" so there's nothing for me to argue against. You're free to stick around and type up more paragraphs with zero facts. At the end of the day, the only people i'm really concerned about are the ones who really are trying to understand the way these games work. And my info is useful while yours is wrong and useless. That's the bottom line, plain and simple.

I'm not looking for any answers here. I know Lezard cheated. I have the facts to back it up. You claimed to be able to prove that he didn't cheat, so being the nice guy that i am, i gave you a chance. I even suggested that we discuss this in another thread from the main BTU thread to avoid further derailing the discussion. But unfortunately you were bluffing, so the last half dozen posts in this thread have been a waste of time. I keep waiting for someone else to come in here and ask a question or try to figure out your crazy language, but no luck yet.

Lezard: Say what you will about me. Go ahead. Say that it's a minor thing and that we should forget about it. Say that i'm indecent and uneducated. Say that you did nothing wrong and that DarkValentine's utter nonsense somehow explains your combos. Say whatever you want. But at least i'm not a liar.

 

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 11-15-2006 22:40 GMT - #31375    IP:

 
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Say what you will about me. Go ahead. Say that it's a minor thing and that we should forget about it. Say that i'm indecent and uneducated. Say that you did nothing wrong and that DarkValentine's utter nonsense somehow explains your combos. Say whatever you want. But at least i'm not a liar.


As i said in my previous (which i hope you read), don't put in my mouth words i haven't said, don't make me repeat this line again.

I didn't tell you to forget about it, i didn't say DarkValentine's theories explain my combos, what i told you was to stop your insults so we can a have a proper discussion here, but as i see it, you won't stop, and that's fine, you can keep talking all you want, i'm not like you.

And by the way, you shouldn't call nonsense what you don't understand...

 

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 11-15-2006 22:43 GMT - #31376    IP:

 
Lezard, could you please explain to me exactly how that Guile combo is done? (And the other combos that Maj brought up.)

I still don't understand how those combos are possible.

 

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 11-15-2006 23:28 GMT - #31378    IP:

 
i've wasted more than my time on this matter with this anyway. i'm not going anywhere still, because i'll be here for a long time anyway. so continue to call my stuff garbage. if that's what you think. can't stop me from posting, but at least i came close to actually getting a rough description to what Lezard did, and other parts as i can get. while the only sentence in the english language that you could utter out is that you want him to admit something you just don't see logical. unless you can seriously make Real proof, in which you still ask for that same proof no one is willing to give, your cause is as lost as mine.


after this, i'm done with this thread, and i don't need to continue posting in it. say what you want, i did'nt win, because of your words, and you did'nt win, because you never recieved the truth of what exactly happened to show that it was what you claim it is now. and if that never comes to be, then no one wins.

This post was edited by DarkValentine (11-15-2006 23:58 GMT, --- ago)
 

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 11-16-2006 01:01 GMT - #31382    IP:

 
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Lezard :
Quote
......to be honest, DarkValentine has a better explanation than me........

.....i didn't say DarkValentine's theories explain my combos........

WTF?

 

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